The trouble with MMORPGs: Grinding me down
Nick laments his rapidly declining online life…
3) DON'T make crap classes/professions:
Because I am drawn to them as the moth is to the flame. I have a history of single-handedly and without prior research, choosing as my own the class or profession that is clearly 'screwing the pooch'. The only exception to this rule is Star Wars Galaxies, where I avoided Chef by the narrowest of margins purely because Ferrago's own Rich called shotgun on them for himself. Instead, I went a medic, and spent most of my time harbouring pent up rage at the lack of tips, with a sinking feeling as I realised I'd have to heal 1,057 more people before I get another skill. This may be unfair though, because SOE have commendably and originally screwed up almost every profession, in order to make everyone equally unhappy. Now that's thinking out of the box.
4) DO play other types of games, to better remember...
That games are meant to be fun. I mean, really, there are careers that are less demanding than your average MMORPG. I'm as lazy as the next person (in fact, much much lazier) - I get up late every day and really don't do very much, but even I balk at the man hours I'm expected to put in to level my character. Come on people. I completely understand the concept of work vs reward in games. But I need more reward, and need it more often.
5) DON'T pretend I can 'make a difference':
We both know that your over-arching storyline is wafer thin, and that I don't amount to a hill of beans in this digital town. Drop the pretence, I can handle the empty feeling of my own non-importance. I live in the real world, remember? I'm happy with my own little corner.
My most recent foray into the online world was with Star Wars Galaxies. In fact, I was so keen I couldn't wait for the European release and secured an American copy on eBay. I am a huge Star Wars and RPG fanatic, and am only just getting over my KOTOR withdrawal symptoms, so you'd think that SWG would be something of a panacea.
To put it simply, Star Wars Galaxies is the latest in an evolving series of MMORPGs that have yet to get the basics right, and each new incarnation adds more froth on a stale and uninventive gameplay experience. Let us look at the things that SWG gets right. Character customisation is excellent. The graphics are just right, if a little demanding. The crafting is deeper and more involving than any previous game, allowing players to exist totally without combat. Of all of these, only the crafting in SWG is a real innovation and truly game enhancing. Galaxies has all the same problems of previous MMORPGs - the grind, balance issues, economic problems - but is multiplied because of the number of professions and the stilted player economy. I honestly believe that Sony must never play some of the professions they have created, because they are stupendously boring to play. As a medic, I came to the stage of sitting watching TV as I ground my way through the early skills. Macros are springing up everywhere because players are too bored to play themselves. Every second entertainer is AFK, simply leaving their characters dancing away in the cantina as they do something more interesting and productive offline. Surely a game designer's number one priority is to entertain? SOE have managed something truly remarkable - they have actively bored me, as opposed to merely not entertaining. Do you see the distinction?
The responses of the developers and some players to all this seem ludicrous. Macroing is severely frowned upon, and I've witnessed huge arguments in the cantinas over tipping AFK entertainers. Some players resent those who refuse to waste their time grinding. These people miss the point. If the game made this process interesting in the slightest, it would not be a problem. When a game feels more like a job than a game, it's time to quit.
Galaxies has tried to innovate, but in my opinion has moved in the wrong direction, drawing all the wrong conclusions from the lessons of the last few MMORPG years. One developer, however, is moving in the correct direction and should provide the quitters like me with a reason to finally part with our credit card details. The game is World of Warcraft, and the developer is, of course, Blizzard. WoW gets me excited in a way few games do these days. It is frankly looking too fabulous to do it justice in anything less than a full preview, but already in its pre-beta state the Blizzard design principles shine through. There are far fewer classes, but each is completely self sufficient - although obviously certain classes will perform better at certain tasks than others. Blizzard has simplified the advancement process, making it impossible to produce a crippled character, but has a complex secondary skill system that allows customisation. The whole game is designed around principles of usability, friendliness to new players, simplicity and of course, fun. This is the key point. Blizzard have stated that they want to reproduce the Diablo-esque quality of forgetting to look at the progress bar. You simply enjoy the game and before you know it, you've gained a level, completed a quest or attained some other goal. This, and this above all, is what I've missed in all the MMORPGs I've played.
The MMORPG genre is now in a critical phase. Although a select few are financially successful, none have managed to produce the kind of gameplay that will keep average gamers playing for years. Developers are trying new things to find that magic formula, each citing what the previous generation of games did wrong in an effort to justify their approach. Shadowbane emphasises player guilds and inter-city combat. Anarchy Online boasted a futuristic setting. Dark Age of Camelot offered the player vs. player experience Everquest was lacking. None of these games, however, ever sought to emphasise simplicity or fun. If I'm right, then some time next year, Blizzard will show us all what we've been missing.
Comments
Man, I agree. You should try EVE tho. It's propably not perfect, but at least several 'quitters' I know are still playing it after 6+ months.
I have pretty much experienced the same thing as the author. However, I usually stick with the game for 3-4 months instead of one. After this, I end up to letting my account lapse.
I wish there was much more to the game then, grab mission kill, kill, kill,kill,kill,kill,kill,kill,kill,kill,kill,kill,kill, grab mission, kill, kill, kill,kill,kill,kill,kill,kill,kill,kill,kill,kill,kill, buy supplies repeat, then lvl. I know this is not exactly how the game goes. But change the pattern for the character class and you pretty much have it.
I believe the problem is the same problem with alot of movies. The quality content is just not there. The content is for me what makes or breaks a movie and or game.
I play around with graphics programming, read gamasutra, and game dev. I somewhat have an idea of the time that goes into putting content in a game and then testing it. Let alone the amount of bugs that have to be troubleshot because of the possible number of combinations in a huge MMORPG. Perhaps the problem is that games are to rushed or maybe there are not enough good designers on MMORPGs.
This guy isn't the kind of person who should be playing these games. They aren't Short Attention Span Theater! It's an RPG, if you bothered to actually RP with others and stopped relying on the game to provide your entertainment, this wouldn't be a problem. You're paying for the priviledge to play in the world, not to be entertained. Ofcourse, the companies market to the wrong crowds cause they need to get so many suckers to buy the game in the first place when they know full well that a certain percentage won't enjoy the game past the honeymoon period.
-- Johnny
[b]Stay text, go free, play Sindome[b]
http://www.sindome.org
If you're not having fun you're doing something wrong, except in EQ where the most fun you could have was probably fishing. Definately give the muds a try. As far as the MMORPGs you should try socializing and roleplaying if you don't like grinding, but the only way to get that ubercharacter you want in the time that you play is to grind, which isn't going to be fun anywhere. IMHO it sounds like you feel you deserve the elite character on a game that you have no dedication to (in comparison to other players). If you wanna be better than them you have to put more time in, simple as that. If you want to have fun, don't try to become the best in a couple of weeks. What fun would any game be if all the players were as powerful as they could get in less than a month?
Come join us Jenquai in Earth & Beyond. SWG is for yuppies.
I would like to see the entire idea of experience re-worked. This "you need 50 million XP" for the next level stuff has got to stop. How about a sliding scale for each creature and the gap between levels remain the same? Kill 50 kobolds for let's say 35XP each and the 51st only gets you 15XP. This would drive players around the maps better in search of new experiences/creatures. I usually only play a game until I have to make that HUGE jump to the next level. Then I get bored as the rewards of advancement disappear. Sure that dragon may get you tons of XP in the current scheme, but you need to coordinate 25 people just to attack it. I would much rather fight in small friendly groups and search the map for fresh things to kill.
For a refreshing take on MMO games, try PlanetSide. I got bored after two-three weeks of EQ, but I'm still on PS after 9 months (I was on closed beta). Granted, it's no RPG, but it does provide instant gratification to noobs (you start with enough cert points to get in a bad ass MAX suit) as well as good, steady reward for experience, and a lot more to aim for than gaining XP (just the fun of the battles)...
For a refreshing take on MMO games, try PlanetSide. I got bored after two-three weeks of EQ, but I'm still on PS after 9 months (I was on closed beta). Granted, it's no RPG, but it does provide instant gratification to noobs (you start with enough cert points to get in a bad ass MAX suit) as well as good, steady reward for experience, and a lot more to aim for than gaining XP (just the fun of the battles)...
Waaaaaaaah! Waaaaaaaah!
WoW will not be the Holy Grail everyone seems to make it out to be
What a big piece of whiny tripe. My entire being has been diminished reading this garbage. Perhaps someday you will mature pass the instant gratification stage and be able to play a game for a period of time. I also take objection that you even posess the knowledge to comment on these games After all, you have admitted to never getting past the free month. Why should developers listen to you anyway? Go hide in a corner and play The Sims. I am pretty sure that it meets your personal criteria of a perfect game.
What I miss in MMORPGs and the reason I have been an MMORPG quitter, is that there is no RPing. Playing in groups is often much more fun than playing solo, but the groups don't RP. Somewhere the meaning of RP has been lost. It no longer means Role Playing; instead it means experience points, leveling and searching for the next piece of equipment or spell. I think there are two reasons for this.
First, the game designs themselves seem to discourage RPing. I don't think the game designers intend for this to happen, it's a natural by product of modern game design. The games work like fancy console games, so they get played like fancy console games. No amount of features will change this. IMHO - It requires an almost completely different sort of underlying game design.
Second, the players in many of these games don't know how to or don't care to RP. So, as the world fills with no RPers, those who would like to RP are overwhelmed by a non-RPing culture and must adapt or abandon the game. But, without the RPing, the grind is just too much to stand - at least for me.
Some times I feel that pen and paper may be the only way to truly RP, but I know in my heart that it must be possible to create a true RPG for online play. I want to create a true RP experience with the great visuals of the modern MMORPGs. It's been a dream of mine since I first played Traveller and AD&D more than 20 years ago - to create a semi-VR like role playing experience. Of course, I think I know how to do it and would if I had the money. But, such a game may never get produced and operated unless someone with a love for RPGing and the cash to self finance it does it. Why? Because even though I have no doubt that it can make money, it likely wouldn't make enough money to satisfy the greedy hands that fund modern game development.
Maybe I'll break down and try a text based MMORPG.........
I played many of the level-treadmill games, and there is only one thing that ever keeps me on any of them. Its not graphics or whos making it, it comes down to lore and felloships. The longest I played any online rpg was 2.5 years (had several last 6 months) the 2.5 years was spent in AC 1. Sure it was a lvling treadmill and there were uber classes and crap ones but it had soemthing few could match. Lore and story, you could actualy be the one to slay the big baddie or have a hand in a epic fight to stop a evil creature asleep for eons. But what kept me was how they ran guilds, I found them binding and entertaining, this may sound cheesy but it gave a sence of family. And for me no game is equal untill they can match this. True WoW looks like it will, I cant wait to play and have fun doing so.
1 game, 2 words: Progress Quest.
I prefer roguelike games, adom (www.adom.de) or nethack. I play adom since 1998 - it's 5 years.
Sadly there is no good roguelike _multiplayer_ game. Hopefully in the future there will be some...
PS: Diablo is crippled roguelike game, with added graphic engine.
The only MMORPG I have ever played for a long period of time is Mankind. Does anyone know of anything similar without such a non-existant dev team?
I am a 65 Cleric of Tunare on Quellious and have been playing Everquest for about four years now. You hit the nail on the head. Excellent article, thank you.
Loral
You say that you've played them all... but you left out one of the games that solves the majority of your problems, and is a fairly big game.
AC2.
I think it has things that need to be fixed, but it definetly is a step in the right direction in terms of "the means not the ends" as opposed to the "end and not the means". Progression is fun and doesn't seem to ever be just "killing rats to get to level 5", there is content all the way through.
I see the bunny rabbits!
to the contrary, i played EVE and could not believe i paid any money for that. so dull and boring!
to the contrary, i played EVE and could not believe i paid any money for that. so dull and boring!
If I were a developer, I would disregard no less then 95% of this article. First, he states he is an obnoxious antisocial who plays odd hours. No one wants to cater their game to such a player. Then he states he wants to feel important almost instantly (I don't like pest control) but contradicts himself by saying he thinks bigger quest are pretentious since he can't effect the game world...that pretty much sums the author up: someone you probably can't please no matter what you do, but if you do please him, the game will have no staying power to cover the cost of development.
Games are created to make money. SWG is dying because of its many mistakes, but if any developer followed the whims of this author, they would have a spectacular flop the likes of which the industry never saw before.
EVE Online sucks just like all the rest of the lameass MMORPGS, though it sucks in some original ways. Other MMORPGS make you sick by putting through a treadmill. You need to play more and more hours a day to advance. EVE makes you sick by doing the opposite: the higher in level you get you do less and less until you feel like a sucker for paying $13 a month to log in for 15 minutes and do absolutely nothing. The further along in EVE you go the less and less you have to do. Eventually I found myself logging in for 10 minutes every 3-4 days. Had achieved wealth beyond my wildest dreams. Had seen every single part of the universe (the sad thing is that every part of the universe looks exactly the same as every other part ... ). You dont even have to log in to train skills. You can log out for 30 days and miss absolutely nothing. What a sorry excuse for an overpriced chatroom that game was. Bleh.
I have trouble believing "Dude" as well. I quit beofre my month was up. EVE is, by far, the most boring mmorpg to date.
Yep, I played AC1 longer than any other game because of the continuing story line and the fact that there was always something new to do in the game. Unfortunately, I got sidetracked by "the Next Big Thing" and never went back. AC2, unfortunately failed to uphold the good name of AC.
Did someone mention AC2? Does that game have 1000 subscribers yet? No seriously. I remember playing that game when it was first released. I stuck around until when about 80% of their subscriber base quit the game in disgust. Now I hear that they have shut down the majority of their servers because there are no players left to populate them. How sad.
The first thing you did when logging into AC2 was kill RATS. Yes rats to level 5. Even rats to level 10 if you had that much patience. There was content all the way through. All the way through to about level 25. Crafting was broken in the most annoying way. PvP was a joke. The devs telling players that there was no content because "the world was completely devestated" did not fool most for long. By the time you made it to "Ice Land" you wanted to claw my eyes out from boredom. From there things only got worse. AC2 was the worst executed MMORPG that I have ever played. At least AO developers got CHAT to work properly! I'm assuming that most of the current subscribers joined the game recently (I hear they added a lot of new content) but who knows. And who cares. Turbine would have to pay me to even consider coming back to that train wreck of a MMORPG game to see what new stuff has been added. Bleh.
I'm a game designer since I was a little kid, but I could never get a job with a company. I see tons of mistakes MMORPGS make that could be avoided. Yet I can't get a job. Artists can get good jobs because they do art, game designers have nothing to show until someone gives them a chance.
First to 1500 wins in Warcraft3, but I like Starcraft better.
http://www.pathofdreams.net/crazyj/index.html
"If I'm right, then some time next year, Blizzard will show us all what we've been missing"
Ahh the words spoken about every "upcoming" mmporg...
I wouldn't get your hopes up, to me this genre has grown more stale, more quickly then any genre I can think of (maybe not more than light gun games though :)
MMPORGs have gone downhill quickly in my opinion. A prime example, in EQ there is a lot of chatting going on due to the fact there are limited chat channels, and a decent amount of downtime. Need to recharge your mana for 7 or 8 minutes, that gives you time to hold a converstaion. With all the new games and tabs for different channels and lagging chat windows (when I type I want the letter to appear instantly), and lack of downtime, there is no casual chatting and that's something that's lacked in almost every MMPORG since EQ...
There are others, but that's just one example, games should improve over time... you can hope Blizzard gets it right but I wouldn't hold your breathe...
This is so spot on it's scary. I am by all means a "Star Wars" fanatic. But Galaxies is almost more like WORK than PLAY. The introductory skills should flow way faster (Grind) and actually do something other than see how many ways we can describe the same 4 or 5 mission types. Breadth of content does no good if it isn't also deep and involving. The sotry-lines are trying to improve, but it seems to be a fairly slow progession. I think MMPORG's in general are going ot have to come up with a more involved scenario, maybe even taking a page from RTS and FPS games in terms of combat and overall picture. Imagine is the rebels TOOK OVER all off Corellia. Or you had to fight for territory or could join up with NPCs for a long campaign that progressed a story. Now THAT would be FUN again, instead of spending half my time varmitting to become a bounty hunter. Kudos
I too would like to second "A Tale in The Desert". I find it a wonderful game, very, very casual friendly and it *does* have the best community spirit of any game I have played. And I have played most of all of them (UOL, EQ, AO, DAoC, SB, E&B, SWG, etc.).
I can truly say that I look forward to signing onto ATITD, it has never seemed like "work", which EQ devolved into and SWG is quickly devolving into.
One thng about AC2, it requires .NET to sign on and play. I have had two friends quit the game simply because of .NET problems. I hope Horizons drops .NET as a requirement as it will cost them greatly.
I disagree. Pick a different profession.
I couldnt agree more! And i'm also looking forward to WoW
Much as I am goign to try from from sounding like a flamer and a generic "OMG WTF you 'like' that?" sort of guy, I have to say that PlanetSide offered some of the most repetitive gameplay in existence. I played it for two weeks (there's a convenient exploit that lets you reregsiter a temporary account using nothing multiple one-week keys, all it takes is another GameSpy account) and by the end I wanted to die. The respawn times were ludcicrous and there very rarel"evenly mathced" large-scale pitched battles (although those few I foudn were awesome). and graphics were confusingly sub-par for a "new" title (kudos on the looks of the Pulsar, though). It was basically Tribes2 except with vast respawn times and long, long walks/flights to new areas.
Okay, no flaming, but that thing about RPGs is crap. I love RPGs, it's my favorite game genre. Tabletop or console or PC it doesn't matter. But you can love RPGs and still get fed up with the way mmo's are right now. Any console rpg has story to back it up. The interface coupled with how good the story is ussualy makes or breaks an rpg. If we judged an mmo on these standards they would all flop. The "story" in mmo's isn't really there, and in most cases, the people who play these games are aware of that. Yes games like Galaxies and AC2 are MMO"RPGs", but the multiplayer status and the community in general take away from what makes normal RPGs what there are: A story where I, or any other person playing, is the main character whom the story revolves around. Anyway, saying that RPGs and MMORPGs have the same audience isn't exactly right. The target audience may be the same, but many people who enjoy rpgs are these quitters you all know and love to flame when they whine.
2 words
Progress Quest
I think I may have posted my other reply to this on ATITD's post but oh well, just wanted to add one more thing. The average "good" role playing game for consoles can be beaten with around 30 to 40 hours game play. A player can ussualy unlock most of the secrets in the game by adding on another 10 to 20 hours. There are of course exceptions. But if we're comparing RPGs to MMoRPGs, this is an important point. Do you think you could invest that much time in an MMO and walk away feeling that you've accomplished everything? I think not. The scope of MMOs is much larger that normal RPGs, and much less focused. Yet another gap that seperates the two.
Im in the Horizons beta and its a Very fun gane and i know your pain.
Great article. Man I sure can't wait for WoW to come out. I cant wait to romp around with all my diablo2 buddies=)
I'd never gotten into the whole MMORPG thing before. Took one look at them and wasn't interested. Everything was designed to be tedious, especially the class features and levelling.
However, that's all changed now. I'm jumping in to the world to experience Final Fantasy XI being released in 2 days or something.
Why? Because I have never played an FF I didn't enjoy. All of the console ones have stories and plots, and most didn't suck. All of them were fun, and there was very little grinding leveling work. Levels happened as you did other things, there was little need to "LEVEL" if you worked on your tactics.
hmm. i would have to agree on the SWG points made. i would however beg to differ on the ability of Blizzard to make "the MMORPG". they havent created a good game since WC2. i have played all the games that everyone raved about that came from blizzard. i enjoyed the hack and slash of diablo 2 for a while, then i realized that like so many other companies they had ripped us off by giving us 2 thirds of the game and left the rest for an "expansion pack" called Lords of Destruction. Then Warcraft 3 stumbled its way out and was another "flat" RTS game that improved upon nothing but graphics.
honestly i dont expect any MMORPG to live up to your expectations.
What is this about Horizons (HZ) requiring .NET? I am in the beta and have not heard a thing.
I've played almost every MMO mentionable, aside from Meridian 59. Some I laughed at, some I respect still. I currently play none of them for many of the reasons mentioned by Nick here. A short rant about particular likes from each game:
DAOC -- PvP System, lack of zoning
EQ -- PvM System
AC -- Plot and player involvement
AC2 -- Monarchy guild system, level limits on grouping, race/skill system, instruments
PlanetSide -- Fast pace
Shadowbane -- Player run cities
SWG -- non-combat/crafting related skills
Diablo -- lack of player input outside bug reporting
EVE -- Corporations
AO -- um... next?
UO -- cookery
E&B -- Combat system
I don't like the way the Matrix based MMO is looking to shape up, and from a friend who's beta testing Dragon Empires that doesn't hold much promise either. But I love Blizzard as much as I used to love Nintendo, before Playstation. Lets hope Blizzard can keep their tradition running strong, and World of Warcraft is as much a powerhouse of its genre as their other games have been.
I like these games. I stuck with Anarchy Online for almost a year, despite some of the worst customer service in the long sad history of the computer industry. I stuck with Neocron for about six months, despite the fact that they screwed my character class in yet another way almost every two weeks.
But the grind you complain about is not there because of the developers. It's there because the players insist on it. For no reason that I can comprehend, people think that the whole point of these games is to level up, and that once they're done leveling up, they're done.
Me, I think that once I'm done leveling up, I'm ready to actually play. It took me an annoying almost two months to get my Star Wars: Galaxies character to where I wanted him. Now he's there, and I'm ready to play. I continue to gain experience in things I enjoy doing, but I may never bother to cash in those experience points for more skills - I have the ones I want.
This means that now that I'm done grinding, I can actually ROLE PLAY.
Too bad they can't seem to get this idea through to the customers. Tons of them are already flaming the SWG forums, asking for "elite elite" professions so they can do more grinding. Go figure.
Learn freakin grammer before you write something!
I too have been disappointed with newer MMOs and played AC1 for about 2.5 years and felt let down by AC2. Why o why did they abolish the shops & NPC traders? Anyway, looking back I think the key to enjoyment was expressing your imagination - the RPG element that 'you' must add. I used to play while drinking beer and would have a tremendous time toying with the situations with my fellow players and this kind of fun can't be recreated with snazzy graphics, sound effects or expertly crafted environments; Morrowind was the most impressive game I've played in this respect and one of the most boring games I've endured. It's the love of tense, sometimes crazy situations, humorous minded people and freedom of expression and exploration that gave me my money's worth a hundred times over with AC1 but I still believe that some game will renew that long lost love. I would place my bets on Lineage 2 because interacting with the game's kinky female characters will get me a barrell of laughs and almost certainly repetitive banning, but that's all part of the fun!
I've played 5 MMOs and although guilds are important I don't see why anyone would want to join a guild up to 3 years in advance of a game release; especially when there is only a possibility that it will be the holy grail of MMOs. Every MMO annouced claims to be such a game, however, this is impossible to believe as there are almost a hundred such games in development or in post release development.
- MMO'er from Ireland
i'd drink to that
I agree with the poster to 100%...
Myself has played MMORPG's for over 9 years now, think ive done em all.
To those who disagree with the post i would like to say..
Well, you honsetly have to open yer eye's wider or get more MMORPG experince.
Stooge, 'grammer' is spelt with 2 a's and no e, but I amagine you knew that anyway ...
Dear sir. Have you thought that MMOGs maybe simply are not for you? Second paragraph third sentence. I have never done anything like that. On the other hand my characters were almost unplayable. Despite this and because of this I enjoyed my time immensely. You ask for rewards. There are only rewards that you get from playing MMOGs- fun and camaderie. I saw people that I showed the "training grounds" level past me with rocket-speed. But I have my fun My way- talking kind and role-playing. But thing I long most for now that I cannot play are people I grown to know, like and love. I yearn for contact, which I lost with my e-mail. Because it was them. From where my joy spranged, not the game.
May all your days be bright
I agree with the main premise in Nick's article. I played STG for about 3 weeks (as a medic/pistolman)then quit. Why? Because it is boring. I still play Diablo 2:LoD. Sure it's graphics and many relatively minor gameplay features can't even touch STG but in LoD I was almost constantly doing something. In SWG, there is so much screwing around via running, waiting for apprentiship points, trying to organize a party, sitting on your arse in a hospital (hell even healing and doing the things a medic is supposed to do is boring and I imagine it to be worse for dancers), etc that you only actually do something of fun for a small duration of game time.
Getting rid of the grind by making leveling too easy is a mistake, because then you'll end up with SB.
To get rid of the "grind", players must feel like they are having fun all of the time, and that it doesn't matter if they level up or not. This can be very difficult to do since most people see a RPG as "must get to the highest level; must be kick ass." They forget to just take their time and smell the roses, and to enjoy themselves in the game.
EQ2 has a new mechanic known as fellowships. Fellowships are a group of players that share experience, even if a player in the fellowship is offline. (experience only flows down levels, so if you're the lowest level person in a fellowship, you don't share any of your experience). The amount of sharing done is also adjusted so power leveling of lower level characters isn't possible. The point of a fellowship is to allow a group of players to remain close in level, so that when they are online at the same time they can still group effectively together. A side effect of a fellowship, is that it might make a lot of players avoid the "levelquest", and to just enjoy the game, since power-gaming themselves constantly is only going to get them so far compared to the rest of their friends.
Can't say that I like your attitude, you sound worse than the Americans that you are trashing. But, as an American that agrees with a lot of the core of your message; I would like to know more about the games that you think are so much better. Can you provide some examples of *your* favorites?
Wow do I ever agree with alot that has been said in the article.
Planetside is my home for now until I hear more about City of Heroes.
Essentially I think alot of people would get more out of a game by leveling more often to a higher level, that way they can experience what the game offers earlier with that particular class/job. Why not? A person can then go on to make yet another character and try that on for size.
Make characters that can be mid level or higher in 6 months. There is no reason Sony can't make money that way, especially when/if they drop hints to upcoming expansions.
Roflmao!! :laugh: Please forgive me but I don't believe a G*d Damn thing this guy says! He spends the entire article explaining in great detail how he has a manic/bi-polar approach to every game he plays, falling in love, then falling right back out again. And what's the conclusion he comes to? That all the other games really sucked. How does he end the article? By exclaiming that WoW is the gonna be the greatest game ever....
Roflmao!! :laugh: I'm not saying that WoW won't be a cool game, but I trust this guys opinion on the matter about as much as I trust a drug addict. All he's done is given us an insight to his approach to gaming. He gets real excited about them, plays for a month or so, then quits - great! That's his particular bag. Right now he's really excited about WoW - after a month or so of playing it he'll quit. Nothing new here.
youre totally right. Progress Quest has to be the most enjoyable MMORPG ive ever, ever seen.
lets see.
it runs in a window, so you can do more than 1 task at a time, you can run more than 1 character at a time, play them against each other. you dont have to macro to gain points, you dont even have to gain points.
the story and plot is non-existent, making you really feel like you're in a major MMORPG game like SWG or EQ / AC2. all you do is watch the awesome progress bar creep along.
it's almost joyful compared to buying the expansions to EQ, cause it costs far less, and it's far more enjoyable. thoroughly recommended if youre a current MMORPG player. i can guarantee you'll switch over in no time.
Woo! Great article.
I would look at Mythica as well as WoW, they seem to have plans to overcome the items you mentioned above. Whether they pull them off or not, well we're all hoping.
Also, Guild Wars looks very interesting.
Have been playing Anarchy Online for several months and I completely agree with you in most points.
Usualy I don't have very much time to play (not more than 1 hour a day) and this was a a big problem, when doing the AO quests (which are really boring btw.). I hope WOW's short quests will make a difference. A short quest should not take longer than 20 minutes, but still has to be fun.
Ok, lets make everyone Gods in the game, everyone is the same, no effort needed. Socialism in the gaming world.
How much do you really know about the financial success of MMORPG companies? EQ and UO always seem full of players to me, both new and old. If everyone stayed it would get too crowded. So don't appeal to the online game companies greed to make the games better.
Exactly my thinking. I've tried and quit from every MMORPG because, frankly, I have finished several novels while playing them.
Truer words have never been utered out of human lips . . .
Wow, it's hard to find a true Traveller fan. :-) If I'd had the money I would've bought the GURPS:Traveller book. The one I came a cross was a signed limited edition... Plus, I like just reading various RPG rule books just to get ideas, even if I never play that particular game. For example, I even have the Dragon Ball Z RPG. I played it with my kids a few times. :-)
Yes, you hit the nail on the head! Freedom of action with appropriate reaction. An environment that encourages the players to create the fun, not one that entertains drones. And, a world that changes in believable ways apart from and as a result of player actions.
I too am disappointed when either I can't enter town because I'm wearing my impressive armor with my menacing weapons hanging from every part of my body. Or, when I enter town dressed like this and the NPCs don't even notice.
In a game like Deus-Ex, I'm satisfied with a relatively static world - after all it's a short game with a compelling story like an intereactive novel. But, with an MMORPG that lasts for years in real life, it's more like a 20 novel epic things change over time, and I want to create my own character and influence the story. This should happen both automatically, and with the introduction of new elements by creative human minds. And, it's an RPG I want to RP and play with others who want to RP.
I believe that it can be done. But, it won't be cheap and it won't make loads of money. It would take *a lot* more server CPUs, but I have devised a scheme that would make it possible to provide for NPCs that respond with an amazing level of AI. It also takes a lot more employee and volunteer "game masters". I believe it could be done and pay everyone's salaries, but it wouldn't be especially profitable as a business.
I could go on and on about this topic...... ;-)
This article is totally useless, we all know WoW is going to own you all anyway.
:D
You probably heard this a few times, but I must say it again:
the article is fantastic!!!
My gratitudes.
I certainly agree with this review and really hope WOW does live up to it :)
I tend to think myself that MMORPGs need to add a more cartoony flare (like Blizzard Ent.'s WoW). I believe a large reason why people will purchase WoW is because of the fact it has a cartoony artistic flare to it.
If another company can add a cartoony flare to it such as WoW is, then by all means, do it.
People nowadays do not want anything to be life like. (At least not more then 5% of YOUR gaming market.) Records available if needed.
if WoW lets players own houses as it has been rumored it will make the game a lot better. when you get bored of leveling you can make you house a cooler place or save cash to build a new one. Maybe you can even become a sleezy real estate salesman.
My problem with MMORPGs is that there is no overall point to playing it. LVeveling my guy up gets old and boring after awhile and some games character peaks are real easy to achieve. I need other reasons to play games like these. I think that there should be a war between factions much like what already exist in MMORPGs ony with one difference. The wars between already existing MMORPGs NEVER end. There is absolutely no point in fighting it noing that right when every soldier is killed they can immdeiately respawn and continue fighting again. I think that the war should restart and all characters who have not died on the winning faction should be rewarded somehow and all characters on the losinf faction should be punished in some way. I'm not going to take forever to try to work out every little detail on how this would work but I do jsut want to get my overall point acrosss that there does NEED to be an overall point to playing MMORPGs other than just leveling your character up.
I agree that entertaining is boring in SWG, but you still can choose additional professions (up to 2 and a half: 255 skill points, 65 SP is master level). So the medic. I am Master Ranger now, but I have about half of medics skills (and surrender many of them multiple times) going to hospital only to heal myself (and others if the there). I raised up in medic just making usual ranger things: hunting animals and then healing myself and my pets in a camp. Also I supported groups with my healings and again got medical XP. So the medic is very active class.
Interesting read/rant.
I read over many of the comments here, and I wonder if some have ever played a MMORPG. Though RPG appears in the name, its rare to find Role Playing (though I think that is what is missing)
I think Nick may suffer from something I do....
The "seen it and done it" problem.
Go back to your first ever MMORPG... don't care which one it was but preferably one of the bigger ones (UO, EQ, AC, AO, DAoC etc)
The first one was a blast. Not only did you have to learn how to "level up" but you had to learn about MMORPGs. It was totally new... mind boggling to a certain degree, and a completely new form of entertainment.
Now enter game number 2. Okay, fun level is going down.
That learning curve that you thought you would carry over to the next game... you know the one?! The one that you thought would give you an "edge" over all the other players.... well it is a liability.
You know what is going on... the game is pretty predictable. Okay, fine you do not know which skill to train, or where to go... but you do know that you need to train something, and there has to be a better place to level up then the one your in.
You understand grouping, the economy, the collecting of items.... you pretty much get the game.
I have always argued, that the 1st time is the best... and every entry into a new game, a new world, is just one degree lower in enjoyment.
We will hope for a game to break the mold, and give us our first time back... but it will not happen. You know too much, and you can't forget what it was like... the pure excitement... the sence of "what next".
Just my .02
What's the point of flaming games, it's all a question of personnal tastes, there's still epople who enjoy playing Diablo I on the internet and people on the Ultima Online servers (alot). So one might criticize WoW for looking childish with the graphics, and another could flame Everquest 2 saying it's crap made by SOE. But what's the point? Saying SWG is a deception, EQ is mindless, WoW look too cartony, EVE is boring, etc. That gets us no where.
Played from the start online with stellar crisis then started my first mmo in Meridian 59, after tha tried UO and AC as well EQ and DAOC. All I would like to point out is a simple point, games are only as good as what you make of em.
Now that is not saying some have issues but truth be told in the right mind set you can have in the worst of places. It's all mind set, if you expect bad well what do you expect if your already have that mindset? Play something you enjoy or if you think you can make the better mouse-trap go for it, I will watch expectantly.
I never understood while people complained bitterly about the games they played while still sitting there playing it hours on end.
Me I had fun on all those games to some extent because I made of it what I wanted. Now am waiting to play Horizons while getting a kick off playing Meridian 59 again for a blast fromn the past. Just pick something that you enjoy.
Very nice article.
But you're idea of fun is purely personal. Back to reality: you're not the only one on earth.
My idea of fun is similar to yours, but quite different in many ways. And what you need to realise is that my idea of fun, and yours, is different from another, and so on.
Though I agree on most of your points, such a nice and well written article shouldn't be biased and objective. As soon as you started to talk about WoW, you had lost me, and many others.
Bit of a rather humorous post. What's your feelings on the computer and o/s your using? If everything we do is so bad, how can you bring yourself to use American components in your computer or god forbid anything Microsoft or Mac. Of course I'm from the States, and I certainly have issues with how we do some things too, but your point seems a bit pointless, andprobably should be included in a forum more aimed at international issues and not gaming. Your issues are clear and your gaming example, well it's just an example I guess.
Oh goodie another commercial for WoW that also slams it's major competitor(s).
WoW is just the next Holy Grail in gaming. After the honeymoon is over, it won't be the last.
So true. =)
I completely agree with nick, after playing a couple of hours of Everquest I thought I must get this game! I had never played a massive multiplayer gamebefore. I bought 6 months and played for only 2 months of the game off and on. The begining was alright, but I had expections of the game getting better as i got stronger characters. It just repeditive and the battles got boring and worst of all you had to do more of them in order to see any change in your character. I ended up wasteing 4 months of my subscription, and i still can't even stand 5 minutes of any game like it before I get bored.
You have a point...
A good point...
But I dunno about all MMORPGs, what about that old RPG, The Realm online, that was simple and fun no matter what class you chose. And some of the mini amateur created 8-bit ones can be really great fun, even for long-term gaming.
And yeah, you're right, the newer MMORPGs are a waste of money unless you're obsessed.
And WOW rules!
So, yeah, I agree.
Have to agree MMO's no matter what they are sukk after the honeymoon, i only play em now mostly for the social aspect, but even then i find myself surrounded by "care in the community" cases as MMO's are probably the best place for ppl that cant deal with RL.
In my whole MMO career i've met 2 ppl i would keep in contact with and thats it i've played em all from AC to AO , neocron to swg, all sukk after a time.
WoW will sukk too, and i hold out little hope for DE or Mystical to be the 1st to not suxxxor.
If you are offended then head back to your doc and get the tranqs upgraded, and get off my tax paying back u monkeys.
Bravo nick. I've been wondering why the MMORPG's i've playing have been so dull and boring... but now you've shone my the light. ;)
BTW- It's incredible how people will try to defend their mother MMO's. They're just games. And if people weren't allowed to express their opinions, then what would this world come to? And I can't wait for WoW. If you don't like WoW, try Horizons. It's not my style though... doesn't focus on PvP to much. But you get to build your own towns with other people.
People are so stereotypical these days.
Couldn't agree more -- but I guess I'm compulsive enough to choke the bile down and keep playing -- "woodshedding" I guess you could call it.
I don't have have a huge variety of games under my belt, but I have played DAOC and Shadowbane a bit (I'd probably still be playing SB if they ever got stable). I'd like to make a few comments about DAOC. I'm troubled by the latest expansion, simply because it seems like the gap that divides the power gamer from the casual player just got even wider. Now, it may be the intention of Mythic to do this, to niche itself and appeal to the power gamer, but I think it's really shooting itself in the foot. That gap I mentioned is a gigantic chasm, filled with gabillions of mobs/levels, money for gear, buffbots, realm abilities, -- and now a series of epic mobs --- all for the purpose of getting ahead of the pack, or staying with it. There simply is no soul to the game.
I look forward to new games that might make the process of character development a joy, and not a job.
And "spelt" is also not a word. The correct spelling is "spelled."
Very nice article. Been there, done that..all boring stuff.....I can find myself in your writing, very good !
Gravel
As I was reading this, I was thinking to myself, this is exactly like my experiences with MMO's, and if I did write an article about them, I'd be saying exactly the same things. I am apparently the same kind of player you are, because I have gone through that exact pattern, felt those exact things, and came to pretty similar conclusions. Heh, I'm even looking forward to the same game...World of Warcraft, though I also have some hopes for UX:O being a good one as well, with their emphasis on making the experience just as fun for soloing as for grouping. Good work man, you said it perfectly, I could not have put it better.
I agree most of it, and cu in WoW, or at inwow.de :D
Someone tell me that was a joke...
Try MeO, it's supposed to be good. It's going to come out in around a year.
I couldn't have said it better myself. WoW will be the game to revolutionize the genre.
and whoever this multiple w guy is is an a complete friggin' idiot. I've never heard anything more unoriginal and evidence-lacking in my life. Get a brain.
you forgot to mention Final Fantasy XI and Lineage II sir
Eve Online is pretty sweet insofar as it's a niche game that caters to economy-building and is centered around corp (guilds) advancement rather than solo advancement.
Because the point of that game was to join a good corp and do things with the corp, not do things by yourself. Everyone I know who says eve is crappy is someone who A) Doesn't like MMORPGS in general or B) tried to solo Eve.
I hail from the worlds 1st ever online rpg: legend of Kesmai. It was the greatest and as a newb we hunted skellys, gobbos and many other beasties, no rats or bees ::cough:: Sadly EA bought the game and closed it to erase competition. Some ex players of this fine game got together and created a home for the players of old and new. Check out www.wrathgame.co.uk and become part of something intimate and special.
Enjoy,
:)
Yes nick, you're right. MMORPGs need to be ever changing in order to not get static and boring. What's the element in a game experience that changes? People. Real people are the only element that are capable of change. That's why you need to base your game on them.
(Sorry to say it fellas, but WoW, while it does look cool, won't be that spectactularly inovative or different, trust me)
I agree with you man. Keep writing these posts! Not everyone will listen or will even need to listen, but some of us find it enlightening to have all mmo problems presented in one area.
I also am waiting on wow.I have warcraft1-frozen throne exp.It would complete the set if i only had wow
: - )
Nick,
Congratulations for hitting the nail squarely, and with only minimal malice, on the head.
The gind, oh the grind. When a game has me feeling slightly more bored than my place of work, then it's truely time to quit. (the game that is.)
Is the only way to encourage people to play a game over the period of 6 months + to encourage the same repetitive tasking over and over again add infinitum? Surely inventive gameplay and interesting content would do the job better?
I can't help wondering what George Lucas would think if he say the genocidal depths that individuals have to attain to have a character of any ability/quality. Perhaps this is the publishers way of pushing us all over to the 'Dark Side'?
I laughed at that because it is so true. . . I'm going to quit Final Fantasy.