Jack Thompson
The firebrand lawyer answers our questions
I'm sure that many people in the gaming community don't disagree with most your views on selling violent games to minors. Given this, don't you think you would get more support for your cause by being less overtly threatening towards what remains a popular past time?
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I'm not out to make friends. I have enough of those. I'm out to accomplish something to protect children and the innocent victims who are sometimes harmed by kids made more aggressive and more violent by the murder simulators on which they practice that violence.
The world has enough folks who identify a problem, speak out, wring their hands and move on. In fact, it was your country's Winston Churchill who said: "Most people when they stumble across the truth, pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and move on as if nothing had happened." I have sat in rooms with families whose loved ones are gone because some kid trained on a game to kill them. Gamers can scoff at that, they can say it didn't happen, but all the science coming out of Harvard and from the American Psychological Association, and now out of the US Supreme Court in the Roper vs. Simmons case draws the causal link between these games, the violent ones, and teen violence.
Cocaine is a popular "past time," too. That doesn't make its consumption, certainly by kids, something we ought to look away from. I don't gauge what I do based upon polls, and certainly not polls of gamers. I couldn't care less what some 14-year-old thinks is good or not good for him. I listen to scientists, health care providers, public safety officials, and I base what I do based upon their findings, not what some readers of Game Informer magazine wish was true because of how they waste their time.
Previously you've campaigned against obscenity in rap music and broadcast media (the constant stream of 'real-life' violence from news programmes, especially the ongoing conflict in Iraq seems pertinent here). Do you believe videogames to be more or less of a threat than these other 'influencing' mediums?
Well, first off, war is not a "medium." It is a real Hell. There is, however, no question that war brutalizes both the people maimed and those who do the maiming. One of the leading experts on that is Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, a former Army Ranger whose book, On Killing, was nominated for a Pulitzer. Dave, who has become a dear friend and who is one of our experts in the Alabama wrongful death case against Take-Two, which will financially destroy Take-Two, has written extensively about the scientific proof that violent video games are murder simulators that train soldiers and civilians to kill. Grossman writes of the devastating psychological cost of getting a human being into that mindset. It is a matter of training, conditioning, and desensitization. That is why British and American military establishments use violent virtual reality simulators to get new recruits to kill.
Beyond that, video games are the most dangerous of all violent media, because they are interactive. You actually enter into doing the violence. Psychologists explain that interactive violence is a far more effective and quick means of behavior modification. But video games are a neutral technology. You can electrify or incinerate a city with nuclear fission. The fission is not the problem. The problem is what you do with it. Likewise, video games are tremendous teaching tools, because of their powerful nature, but what we do with them is what is problematic. Evil can find its way into any technology, because evil is in every heart. Certainly mine. But the difference is that I know that. I think most teen gamers have no freaking idea what evil is, and thus they are more easily preyed upon by it. I'm a Christian. The Bible explains all this. Kids would do well to read it as well as their cheat code manuals.
Are you aware of the free online game entitled 'America's Army'? It is a free online 'shooter' game that pits two teams against each other to fight to the death. The game was developed and is continually subsidised by the United States Army with the open intent to recruit young people into the armed forces. The guns are realistic, the sounds are excellent, and the tactical attention to detail is superb - this is all because it has been developed by actual soldiers. Upon being shot, the player will simply disappear without any suggestion of bodily trauma. Is this perhaps not significantly more obscene than representing any amount of fictitious gore, by misrepresenting the results of actual violence?
It is not, obscene, in the legal sense of the term, but it is outrageous. Gamers need to do their homework on me. I was on ABC's World News Tonight three years ago explaining how outrageous it is that taxpayers are subsidizing a violent video game distributed free to teens when this same government found the link between violent video games (Doom) and what happened at Columbine. The creation of the America's Army game is a scandal. By the way, there is classified information in the game, which is an illegal act, and our government's contracting with a Japanese company, Sony, to create the game violates a treaty the US entered into after WWII not to use Japanese companies to create military products of any kind, including training simulators. So our government has broken the law in a number of ways to make this game. I wrote the arrogant Don Rumsfeld ten times telling him that America's Army was a big mistake. I said that on ABC News at the time. Probably why I was profiled for a ten-minute piece last month on ABC's Nightline.
As you can see, by God's grace, I've been on this issue quite some time. I'm not as dumb and ineffectual as I look. The industry fears me because they know I don't quit.
Is it fair that certain games should be banned from the whole gaming populace, despite the argument that only a tiny minority of gamers are easily influenced?
No, of course not. In a free society, adults can pretty much get what they want and should. You gamers need to get off the "Jack Thompson wants to ban video games" nonsense. I had a kid in New York call me the other day screaming at me because of that. I said please, listen to my real position. He listened. He was a nice and polite guy. When I was done, he said "Hey, I agree with everything you have to say on this. This was very cool." I asked him what prompted him to call. He said, "Our eighth grade social studies class was talking about you, and I though I would call you." I said, "Tell your teacher I will be happy to address the entire class by speaker phone so they can hear what my real views are as the industry's chief critic," and he said that was very cool. Facts are very, very cool. Caricatures of critics are stupid.
In the past you have directed criticism towards games such as The Sims 2 for alluding to areas of inappropriateness. The instance of Sims 2 it was in the blur that covered the characters nudity, which could only be removed using a user created and unlicensed alteration of the game. Your qualm was that the blur itself suggested nudity. This is, in effect, the suggestion of nudity, in a visual medium (the game), which is itself a suggestion, this is reality twice removed, such as a painting of a photogragh of an apple. Do you worry that there might be some overspill from more zealous censorship groups that will outlaw even allusions to suggestions of inappropriateness?
Once again, you have totally mischaracterized my position. I think it would be nice if people would actually ask me what I think or at least read what I have actually written. The problem was not that the blur suggested nudity. The problem was and is that the brilliant but reckless person who created the Sims (I forget his name) has openly and actively encouraged mods of his figures. That has led to all sorts of porn available on the web to kids. This is not surmise. Go Google the sites. To underscore the legitimacy of my concern, the ESRB's Patricia Vance, picking up on my lead, shortly after the Sims flap informed the entire industry that developers' failures to protect their own copyrighted images and codes and so force was unacceptable and would lead to a gutting of the whole copyright concept. She noted that a failure of companies to go after modders who modded a teen product into adult product was a huge problem for which the developers were responsible by virtue of their laxity.
When she did that, I felt like Jeff Goldblum's character in Jurassic Park, when the t-rex comes through the de-electrified fence. He mutters, "Damn, I hate being right all the time." I'm not right all the time, but Vance got it, and I was right, and to the extent that the Sims folks or anyone else allow copyright infringers to modify their figures into porn, then they too are responsible for the consequences, to their copyright's dilution and the harm to kids that flows from it.
Comments
My heavens. I can see a few well founded points shining through these attacks on gamers and most especially the personal insults aimed at Mr. Eibeler, but really, responsibility rests with gamers and parents. And if games like GTA really forced violence, wouldnt we be seeing massacres daily from the massive numbers of gamers 'corrupted' by play? Again, in the future, just as a side note, Mr. Thompson, pardon my bad language, may want to be less of an ass. Which is what he comes off as.
I think people would take this guy more seriously if he didn't go aroudn insulting everyone , calling people morons , and taking his views to such a religious and fanatacal extreme. There is no need to personally insult people, all that will do is cause even more hatred and anger, and violence. Did you ever see any "wars" being won by name calling like little kids? no..
Personally I don't really see why having the same kind of classifications for games as films is considered a bad thing, surely it legitamises the format in some respects?
Morning folks. When you're discussing the topics raised by this interview please remember the house rules if you'd be so kind... no bad language and personal abuse, etc.
Thanks!
Hey LUKE
Maybe if you guys didn't omit half a dozen important facts and actually challenged jack instead of giving him a digital BJ, some of us wouldn't have to do it for you. The fact is you failed in this interview cause you all didn't have the guts to challenge the man on his failures and counter his points.
Hell, If Doug Lowenstein had any guts at all then Thompson would be a penny less begger and probably in jail for any number of reasons I could name, the least of which being contempt of court.
I swear, if anyone of authority in the industry had any brains at all, then thompson and his ilk would be facing lawsuits on a daily basis till they stopped lying, but as it stands, all the industry ever does is ignore him or in this case, give him his own personal soap box.
Pathetic!!!
The annoying thing, is that in his interview with destructoid, he exersised the charm and got his point accross.
Its not as if that Jack cant help being an inj your face offensive jackass, he chooses to do so.
Perhaps so he can use those who are genuinly angry with his comments (the MGS suicide is approaching its first aniversary BTW) as an example of games prompting a violent reaction.
Matthew, as I'm sure you can appreciate we're not a site that has covered JT's activities in the same depth as several sites on the US side of the pond, hence why we're simply looking at the basic issues with this interview. We're trying to avoid the usual bickering, hence why we've asked a set of rather different questions...
I grew up with games, from the age of 11; mostly spectrum then Amiga based games. Some were violent, but none to the level or
I grew up with games, from the age of 11; mostly spectrum then Amiga based games. Some were violent, but none to the level or as real they are now. As a long term gamer, I really can see how modern violent games can actually train the brain - or desensitize it - that violence is OK.
I think the important thing that JT says here - personal insults aside, as I love the Tycho and Gabe - is achievable and totally fair. Making selling M rated or 18 games to kids and moreover the WATCHING or PLAYING of them illegal, which a hefty fine for retailers and parents. It makes total sense.
Gears of War as an example. An 18 certificate game. Very gory, but GREAT FUN. Many many young kids were posting on the forums pre-release that there were gonna play it, they they were old enough. How the hell do they know? All they know if they want to play it! Do they know how it's affecting them? Do I? No. There parents won't stop them, so lets get the law in to protect them instead.
It just seems totally reasonable to me.
Jack, I'm 21, and have been playing violent video games since I was 13, If you can explain to me, with decent language and without a single smidge of bias, then I might listen.
Games don't kill people, guns do.
The esrb did try and use the movie classification back when they were first starting out. The problem is that it's copyrighted and the mpaa wanted a stupid amount of money to use thier system. That's why you don't see the mpaa ratings on games.
Fade : Thats like saying
Nazis didn't kill people, guns did.
There's a motivation behind it. 3D, interactive, now getting life like (Gears of War) and the so often used - visceral - nature of gaming; don't you think it could have some physcological impact on a growing brain? There is a potential risk it could; mitigation? Just make sure you enforce the ratings games already have.
I may be an ass, but what in the world does that have to do with the issue?
This guy insults quite a number of people he refers to. Insults aside, I only agree with him about regulating mature games and the fact that public pressure will eventually explode when incidents like these get out of hand but let's be realistic. Do you think most gamers will turn out like that? Of course not.
These very people who kill because of some video game are actually victims of domestic abuse. They need help. Blaming or suing a videogame publisher/developer won't solve anything at all. Grow up!
Jack, not-so-serious point here.
All your
Jack, not-so-serious point here.
All your
All your
We had some problems with our comments system there, but hopefully we should be semi-sorted now. Cheers, Jason
Jack Thompson is completely out-of-touch with reality and something known as 'facts'. The unconstitutional law he helped craft in Louisiana is going to cost the cash-strapped state $157,548. This is after similar laws in various other states also failed as being unconstitutional and cost those respective states hundreds of thousand of dollars in taxpayer money in recovered legal fees in addition to what was squandered trying to put said laws into effect.
The only reason anyone has used the 'Video games made me kill people' defense is because ambulance-chasers like Jack Thompson have pushed to make it a legitimate defense in spite of all scientific studies stating otherwise (from which Jack Thompson carefully cherry-picks statements to support his arguments and ignores the rest). Of course a man who may go to prison for life or be put to death is going to agree with Jack Thompson. Just like Jack they're desperate men grasping for straws.
Who have you insulted? How about those metal gear solid fans you ridiculed after their friend committed suicide? How about your childish comments that gamers are on drugs and brain-damaged?
You claim to be a Christian, but you flagrantly ignore the teachings of the one you claim to be your Lord.
Jack Thompson has shown us all that idiocy really has no limits. The world would be far better off without this ignorant and imcompetent man. I don't mean to be rude, but this guy is simply a jackass.
Jack, i think this is a step in the right direction. You are communicating with the gamers and not just insulting them. Keep this up, and we might let you back on GP
Or...allow me to reiterate. A heated conversation is somewhat better then a no-bar holds hatefest. Maybe we should try having a conversation that isn't a debate...lol
âI listen to scientists, health care providers, public safety officials, and I base what I do based upon their findings, not what some readers of Game Informer magazine wish was true because of how they waste their time.â â Jack Thompson
Number of Violent Crimes per 100,000 people in the US since 1991: (PS1 was released in US in 1995)
1991 758.1
1992 757.5
1993 746.8
1994 713.6
1995 684.5
1996 636.6
1997 611.0
1998 566.4
1999 523.0
2000 506.5
2001 504.5
2002 494.4
2003 475.8
2004 463.2
2005 469.2
Thanks, but I don't really care whether I get back on GP or not. My alleged "insults" pale in comparison to the death threats and other harassment gamers visit upon me, resulting one instance in an arrest. I don't ever hear any concern about that.
By the way, I have drafted an Eastern state's video game bill, which will be announced Monday.
If Jack Thompson is actually concerned about violence, why doesn't he go after more serious factors? If video games have any significant influence at all, much less any greater influence than other media such as books or films, it is still insignificant compared to more stronger factors such as poverty, parenting, and drug usage. Why not go after these? Why not campaign to help underprivileged children? Why not volunteer in your community? The truth is that Jack does not actually care about anyone asides himself. He is attacking video games to get media attention, not to make the world a better place.
And the bill you've drafted for said
And the bill you've drafted for said
I don't realy understand why there is such a fus about this topic. Personaly, I think videogames will never be banned and this guy Jack Thompson should get a real job , other then trying to get popular with his protest against video games . One thing is certain , violent games are not made for everybody. I've been playing VGs ever sience Half Life 1 when i was only 6 years old, and i've never ever got inflicted into a fight , never been agressive to anybody , just becouse i'm a normal guy and that's my style of live. I'm a happy person and sociable in the same time. So , rather then ban all the VGs , a better idea would be to keep pshicopats away from consoles and Pcs. That's my point of view. Peace to all! (excuse my english - from Romania with love) ;)
And the bill you've drafted for said state will be found irrepairably unconstitutional just as every other video-game bill you've hand a hand in writing. It will, if passed, cost the state thousand of dollars in taxpayer money to defend and when inevitably swatted down as inept the video game industry will rightfully sue to recoup their legal costs. That's money that would be better spent on new textbooks, computers, classrooms, or heating/air conditioning for this nation's rapidly deteriorating educational system lost because of your self-righteous crusade.
You're a joke of a lawyer and it's only a matter of time before you're disbarred in the state of Florida. Perhaps then you'll stop leeching off your wife while you travel about the country pretending to be an expert on something you know nothing about and attempting to exploit each and every high-profile youth-related violent tragedy to get your face on television.
This comment system seems to be broken again...
A modified version of a post I made else where regarding Jack:
Jack clams his critics donât research him, he however knows they in fact do research him and that why he constructs pleasant sounding arguments that make him seem rational but are filled with distortion, all and out lies, weasel words, and many types logical fallacies. He is charismatic and a good speaker but his actions betray his words.
Since Jack so believe in full disclose, ethical behavior and seeing the truth he might want to explain why he continues to spread misinformation about the nature of school shootings that is only liable to put our children at greater risk for school violence.
Let me explain:
Preaching in behalf of a law he helped draft he told the Louisiana legislators that according to the FBI and Secret Service reports on school shootings video games and violent media was the one common denominator in school violence he reported those sentiments in an article in the Shreveport times article and on other occasion he and other have gone as far as to specifically say videogame were the cause of school shootings and right here he continued to say there was an established link between video games and school violence.
This is quite simple false the FBI and Secret service never said this they in fact, said their was no common dominator and contraindicated any approach that tries to look for a single denominator. But donât believe me here are link to the studies Mister Thompson calms he has read.
The secret serviceâs report: www.treasury.gov/usss/ntac/ssi_final_report.pdf
The FBIâs report: www.fbi.gov/publications/school/school2.pdf
Let us take a look:
Jack claim in the aforementioned article in the Shreveport times: âThe FBI and Secret Service found, in studying all the school shootings up to and through Columbine, the one common denominator was the immersion of the perpetrators in violent entertainment.â Neither the FBI nor the Secret Service has ever said anything of the sort. It is true that the Secret Service in its report, âThe Final Report and Findings of the Safe School Initiativeâ, found that âOver half of the attackers demonstrated some interest in violenceâ they also noted that âthere was no one common type of interest in violence indicatedâ and that Thompson's preferred target of immersion in violent video games was present in a merger 12 percent of cases. Had this been said alone it might give Thompson some support but reading the report in itâs entire makes the it quite clear that Thompson is grossly distorting the facts. The FBI in its report, âThe School Shooter: A Threat Assessment Perspectiveâ, also makes it explicitly clear that âNo one or two traits or characteristics should be considered in isolation or given more weight than the others. Any of these traits, or several, can be seen in students who are not contemplating a school shooting or other act of violenceâ and both organizations empathized the fact that âThere is no accurate or useful
If we could keep the comments from being personal, that would be great - then I don't have to go and delete them. You're not helping your case by being aggressive... just like Mr Thompson.
count.
âThere is no accurate or useful
(Apparently, double-quotes cause problems. Sorry.)
'I have so little time on this earth that I choose not to waste it in what amounts to mental masturbation.' - Jack
Quite ironic since his crusade against videogames IS his mental masturbation.
'...how is it possible to train a person in the expert use of lethal firearms in a 'simulation' that uses only ones thumbs?' - play.tm
(Note how Jack's reply doesn't answer this part of the multipart question)
Mr Thompson,
I'm not trying to ridicule or harass you i'm just trying to understand you. I think that trying to ban videogames, or any videogame, is a dumb and stupid thing to try to do. It is a persons choice to play a videogame or to buy it for their kids.
You said in your interview that you intended to hurt hollywood and intended to hurt the game industry. So you are doing all this to hurt a well-performing busniess? That dosen't make any sense why someone would try to do that. It's like trying to shut down the pizza place around the corner because you don't like pizza.
You also stated about the videogame defense in a court of law. I think i agree with you to an extent. Having a plea that videogames made me do it is absurd. Unless the disk jumped out of its case and physically forced you to kill someone while you had no control over your body. But that's never going to happen. I do play a lot a lot of violent videogames and i don't have an urge to go kill someone.
You also stated that all videogames are
So you drafted a bill, big deal jack. You have a history of failing in that regard already. I doubt your new bill will have any greater succes then the last one, which had ZERO.
Your a self serving parasite jack, and maybe one day, the industry is gonna get so tired of your crap they'll finally strike back, and if that happens, your FINISHED!!
Hey Jack,
If you're so concerned about another Columbine-type event, why don't you focus your efforts on the people who make it easy for a kid to end up with a loaded gun?
Hey Jack, I feel like rubbing some salt in the wounds.
Remember penny arcade? You know, who you tried to put in jail? Well, not only are they not in jail, but there special CHILDS PLAY CHARITY has raised over a MILLION DOLLARS for childrens hospitals this year, from donations coming from the gamer Community. Thats right jack, THE GAMER COMMUNITY!
Sure makes your 10000 dollar offer, which they even payed for you, look like nothing now doesent it. Your a sad, pathetic old man jack, and I for one look forward to see you put behind bars in your upcoming flordia contempt of court case.
Couldn't happen to a bigger scumbag.
You know Jack, instead of saying you're drafting a law in
an Eastern state", how about you grow a set of balls and actually announce which one it is already? Some of us may like to be in attendance for such things if the chance arises.
Just a few reality bits:
- Jack was thrown off GamePolitics for being unable to discuss the issues rationally and refrain from flames and baseless legal threats.
- The APA specifically denied finding a causal link between games and real life violence, and Jack's other studies are flawed as well. Games don't cause violence, flawed individuals do, and telling grieving families otherwise is wrong.
- Jack has had several opportunities to have rational and intellectual conversations with gamers, and has rejected every one in which he might be proved wrong. He was famously schooled by a 14 year old.
- Jack does want to ban games. He wants to take down Rockstar and any other company he disagrees with. He even admits this in the interview.
- Jack, please provide a SPECIFIC reference to when someone was acquitted of murder because of a video game defense.
- Jack, you need to realize this: You are Un-Christian. You are Un-American. YOU are evil.
Oh, and Jack... as to you drafting a law for an "Eastern" state? When do you intend to re-pay Louisiana the $157,000+ that your last law cost them?
I know it doesn't matter to you (according to your own comments), but that money really could have gone to better use for Katrina relief instead.
Luke, we have a problem here, and it is not mine. I have awakened this morning to see how this is going here, and I find posts such as "go f*** yourself, mr. thompson."
Well, two things in response to that and similar posts: a) the out of control nature of these posts prove my point as to the corrosive effect the violent and profane games like GTA have on those foolish enough to play them. Kind of like the kid in Houston who was arrested and jailed for calling me, telling me he was go to castrate me, stuff my testicles in my mouth, and then kill me (I would have preferred that in reverse order), so as to make the brilliant point that the violent games have had no effect on his attitudes. Some of the posters here join his Einstein-like display; b) these people are violating the rules you yourself, Luke, have posted here. These assaults must be removed.
Having said that, as few random responses: I am not allowed, by that Eastern state, to note its identity until Monday, when those involved there will announce it. Duh.
The APA in 2005 publicly announced their findings of a CAUSAL link between teen play of violent games and increased aggression. The fellow who says otherwise appaprently can't read.
As to "wasting money that could be spent on Katrina victims." Wow. The federal government and the Red Cross and about a thousand other charities are taking care of that. I guess you missed it. But I don't see any charities doing anything for the three families in Paducah I represented or the three families in Alabama all gunned down by teen gamers. Would you like a financial analysis of the cost of Columbine to ALL of us, to all the school systems with now draconian security measures because to Doom-heads said and then did what they said in wanting to "turn the hallways of Columbine into Doom."
If you gamers are so concerned as individuals, for the victims of Katrina, then get off your butts, stop playing your silly and dangerous games, and wash cars and give the proceeds to the hurricane victims.
I'll do what I do to try to save lives. You can chase your own charitable notions.
I respond with more answers to your legitimate and illegitimate questions, but until the "go f*** yourself" stuff is removed, I'm done.
You make me sick mr Thompson. "the charities are on it"?
I'll tell you why there's no charities for the families in Paducah, or Alabama. It's because simply put, there's bigger needs than worrying about videogames. If you take all the bad examples of people who play videogames, why not take all the bad examples of people who listened to music? or watched television?
In 2005, the APA said NOTHING of a causal link between violent games and aggression, please stop lying. Either that or apparently YOU can't read.
You really need to understand reality John Bruce. Charities can only do so much, charities are there to help the large groups. Videogames have been proven just the opposite, they are helping STOP violence. Though I bet you failed to notice that in your fervor of trying to ban videogames.
Also: if you want us to take you seriously, please use correct spelling, grammar, and punctuation.
You want people to stop insulting you and saying mean things about you thompson? stop saying lies that you already know will do nothing more than inflame them.
August 18th 2005, the APA said: "exposure to violence in video games increases aggressive thoughts, aggressive behavior and angry feelings among youth".
Mr. Thompson,
Even before video games were invented, there were always a few who could not express themselves in any way but profanity. Thus an attempt to blame games for this is disingenuous.
Where is the LINK to the APA announcing a CAUSAL link between video game violence and real life violence (which flies in the face of the DOJ stats which say real life violence has gone DOWN as video games have become more prevalent?)
And you avoided the point, Jack. YOUR bad law cost the state of Louisiana over $150,000. This is money that this state in particular could really use right now to feed and clothe people. Do YOU intend to pay it? Or for the expenses this new law will reap when it fails?
If the relatives of the victims in Paducah, Alabama and Columbine (all three cases being all about disturbed young men and NOTHING about video games) are not getting assistance from charity, then charity organizations have dropped the ball in those areas.
You don't save a single life, Jack. You scapegoat. You point bereaved victims at something that has NOTHING to do with their loss. And that's awful.
And let's be honest. You're not leaving over the "Go **** yourself" stuff. You're leaving over the intelligent arguments that you cannot counter.
Jason - That is *extraordinarily* far away from causation of real life violence. In fact, their studies only found these reactions applied to the short term, and were not applied to reactions to other stimuli (say, like watching a football game).
More to the point, the APA was asked POINT BLANK by the site GamePolitics if they had said that there was a causal link between video game violence and real life violence and they replied no.
You're the one who can't read, Jack. As another poster said the only causal link was between violent video games and SHORT-TERM aggression, and that causal link is likely the same as with watching or participating in sporting events. As always, you cherry-pick what you choose to understand and completely omit the rest. That is why you fail completely to be taken seriously by anyone with a scientific background and why your book on Amazon is tagged with:
First tag: lies (6mullet on Nov 17, 2005)
Last tag: senile
lies (34), propaganda (15), biased (13), scaremonger (10), ambulance chaser (9), crap (9), slander (9), unscientific (9), unfounded assertions (8), childish name calling (4), disbarred (4), fud (4), libel (4), lies propaganda (4), money grabbing lawyer (4)
Well - I'd argue that violence is a form of aggressive behaviour.
All these arguements, but I don't understand what you guys want? No legal age limitations on game buying? Or are you just arguing against Mr Thompson personally? Cut the crap, I don't really care what people have tagged his book as, or his status as a lawyer... what is the endgame here?
Violence may be a form of aggressive behavior, but not all aggressive behavior = violence, particularly on the scale that we're discussing here. Especially since the APA's findings showed only SHORT TERM results, and we've seen violence rates actually go down as more violent and realistic video games have become more popular, according to the Department of Justice.
As to "what we want", yes, there are certain games that are inappropriate for children, just as there are certain items of just about every form of media out there also inappropriate for children. There is a ratings system in place. Statistics show it's working even BETTER than the MPAA's system in terms of how often underage consumers are able to bypass the ratings system.
Parents have the control not to buy a game, but even if they were uninvolved in the buying decision, they can still take away a game at home. A parent who does not take the time to know what their child is playing is a bad parent.
Thompson's crusade is based on a number of lies. All these horrific cases he references weren't caused by games, but by disturbed people who may or may not have played them. Murders existed before video games did, and if they didn't exist, something else would set them off.
Add to this that Mr. Thompson's crusade, and those of like mind to him, are starting to cost US taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars, and it's insane.
Every new medium has gone through something like this, comic books, rock n' roll, D&D, the list goes on and on.
And Jack Thompson is just the newest Fredric Wertham.
"I am not allowed, by that Eastern state, to note its identity until Monday, when those involved there will announce it. Duh"
Thats a cop-out and you know it. There are several ways to identify what state is in question without giving its actual name. Mentioning historical events, famous people who were born there, universities located there, I could go on...
Suffice to say though, if it ends up being my state in question, and you cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxpayer money after you fail again, I'll be making sure you are fully accountable towards paying it back.
In the UK we have a system that works pretty well. Games "depict[ing] to any significant extent, gross violence against humans or animals, human sexual activity, human urinary or excretory functions or genital organs, or techniques likely to be useful in the commission of offences" are rated by the BBFC (British Board of Film Classification), just like films are.
This private company was legislated in 1985 to classify media under the Video Recordings Act. This system, thought it has some problems, seems to do a fairly good job and through the combination of the law, respect for the rating, and retailer support the population comply, and I think we're all better for it.
On your another of your points - I think its significant that games allow the user control the action (unlike films). This makes them more persuasive than films - a point that the games companies use in thier advertising, for instance (e.g. tagline for the recent Scarface game was "Be Tony Montana" - the guy doing all the drugs and killing).
As for Mr Thompson - yes he is over the top, yes I don't think he makes his case very well, but he does have a point - games need legislation.
Nobody in his/her right mind would try to ban video games. I never have. I never will.
In the UK, you cannot legally sell a game with an "18 certificate" to a minor. That is not the case in the US. Is everyone in the UK daft?
Jack Thompson
Sorry, but you're wrong. The number of teen violence incidents is up. They are not being reported to the law enforcement authorities and are instead being handled, unless a fatally or nearly so, "in house" by school authorities. Anyone in law enforcement knows that and will tell you that. The alleged decline in teen violence is a hoax.
But let's assume you are right (you aren't). How much lower would the teen violence rate be if you didn't have a generation practicing the violence? The American Psychological Association has the facts and has released the report that such games increase teen aggression, that there is a CAUSAL nexus.
Where is your study?
Sorry, but you're wrong. The number of teen violence incidents is up. They are not being reported to the law enforcement authorities and are instead being handled, unless a fatally or nearly so, "in house" by school authorities. Anyone in law enforcement knows that and will tell you that. The alleged decline in teen violence is a hoax.
But let's assume you are right (you aren't). How much lower would the teen violence rate be if you didn't have a generation practicing the violence? The American Psychological Association has the facts and has released the report that such games increase teen aggression, that there is a CAUSAL nexus.
Where is your study?
Nobody stated "all video games are murder simulators." Where do you people get this stuff?
Actually, you need to get your facts straight. Remember those? They have to do with reality. No game was ever produced commercially to replicate my Modest Proposal. Secondly, and this is the sine qua non of the whole offer to charity (look up sine qua non): Paul Eibeler, CEO of Take-Two had to designate the charity to which I would give the money. Not Penny Arcade, not Doug Lowenstein, not Patty Vance, and not you. Paul Eibeler. I'm still waiting to hear from Paul Eibeler. He's actually in the phone book on Long Island. Why don't you call him and ask him, finally, to tell me to what charity he wants the money sent.
Get your facts straight next time. You won't look so silly. Love, Jack
actually, dude, I got one passed unanimously in Louisiana and signed into law. You pass any bills lately, other than fake 20s at Burger King? ;)
If it is a parent's decision, then what is Wal-Mart doing selling GTA to 14 year olds with no parents in sight? If you can answer that one correctly, then you win $10,000!
Jason, good point. Most every gamer that I have seen has a problem with Jack Thompson, and they don't have a valid point to make on the issue. It is always ad hominem 24/7. Why? Because gamers read the nonsense that is spewed out of rags like Game Informer, Electronic Gaming Monthly, which are merely paid lapdogs of the industry, and they buy the lies because they are unwilling to think about this for themselves.
MY ONLY ISSUE IS THAT ADULT GAMES SHOULD NOT BE SOLD TO CHILDREN! THAT IS THE LAW JUST ABOUT EVERYWHERE OTHER THAN THE US! WHY CAN'T GAMERS GET THAT????
Jason, how am I over the top? Who is making the case better? In fact, who is making the case. 99% of what you think you know about me is reported by publications owned or paid by the industry.
Actually, I was thrown off GamePolitics because Dennis McCauley filed a Bar complaint against me to punish me for my views. He continued to attack me at his site without disclosing he had filed a Bar complaint. Big no-no journalistically. It's called full disclosure. Guess what? The Bar complaint was dismissed by The Bar as meritless. Why don't you ask Dennis McCauley about it? This clown has even blocked my access to his site to just read what is there. Big First Amendment guy he is!
Actually, Louisiana lost the court fight because they decided not to defend the law fully. Not my fault. It was their fault. The AG of Louisiana took a dive. Apparently you weren't paying attention at the time. I was. The AG goof didn't even introduce to the court the brain scan studies at Harvard, which prove the brain damage by the games. Really easy for the fed. judge to then hold: there is no evidence of harm by the games. duh. every psychologist in America knows of the harm and has the scientific proof of it. totally lay down by the AG. And you know absolutely none of this, do you?
Thanks, Benjamine. I'll keep telling the truth, and you can keep calling it lies. You sound worried to me. Why so hot and bothered about such a total clown like me? Sounds to me like you know that we're about to take adult games away from the kiddies.
check the longitudinal study by Brad Bushman at U of Michigan and then get back to me! Love, Jacky
Madfish:
Amen, brother. If the Mature games are ok for kids, then why does the industry put a WARNING LABEL ON THEM???!!!
Excuse me, ace. First of all, Metal Gear Solid fans, as you call them, need to get a life. Secondly, the linkage between obsessive game play and depression has been established. Nobody ridiculed anybody, ace. What I did was point out that the unfortunate suicide should be a wake-up call to gamers to check what they are filling their lives up with. Nobody gives you the right, just because you are a gamer, to lie about what I say and what I do.
You are typical of a generation which cannot handle any criticism of your waste of time. If you are going to waste your time, then acknowledge it for what it is: mental masturbation in front of a screen that helps absolutely no one in the worlkd and certainly not you.
I have sat in jail cells with kids whose lives are over because they killed people and trained to do it on your precious murder simulation games. Get a life, before it is too late. And don't tell me what I have said when I have not said it. You simply regurgitate lies that some knuckleheaded gamers have posted at a chat site.
Are you impaired? Seriously. I have been told by that state not to identify it until Monday, so it can make the announcement. It's a really simple concept. I can wait until Monday. Apparently you cannot. Get help with your patience problem.
Ok, last comment for the day. Dear Liar: The FBI and Secret Service found that the one common denominator in the lives of the kids who did school shootings up through Columbine was immersion in violent entertainment. The heads of six major health care organizations testified before Congress in June 2000 that there is a directly causal link between teen violence and violent media. You have no facts. All you have are self-serving biases that make you feel better about how you waste time and money playing games. Put down the controller, step away from the platform, and get a life. In the meantime, stop lying about how there is no evidence that putting garbage into your head hurts you. Every sentient being above an earthworm understands garbage in, garbage out.
Dear Jack.
SO, once again you ignore the fact that you were prove to be a liar once again. Lets look at the FACTS!
1. The APA has confirmed, to Gamepolitics no less, that they have NEVER stated, to congress or to anyone, that there is a Direct Casual link between games and violence. Since you can't go to the site anymore due to your actions, I can understand that you wouldn't know that.
2. Umm, Jack, Several of us, in these comments pointed out that The FBI and Secret service DID not point to video games as a cause of violence. In fact, the FBI and Secret service say that games show up a maximum of 12 percent of the time, where as the shooters were obsessed with there own writings better then 60 percent of the time. WHats your answer to that then, since I just proved, again ,that your were lying!
Lastly, whats your comment on Penny Arcade and the game community raising better then a million dollars for childrens hospitals across the world.
You claim to be acting "For the Children", But it's gamers who are actually making the Differance in childrens lives.
Get off your high horse, your not morally superior to them, me, or any gamers. You have the moral center of a snake, and even your own son is embaressed by you. I happened to read your profile in Rolling stone. Sad that your sacrificing your sons youth to your crusade, along with your dignity, your credibility, and your deceny.
Penny arcade proved that gamers are, and always were, superior to your mentally and morally.
So I'll thank you to think about who your insulting next time you wanna attack us.
Once again, everything you insist to be 'fact' has no merit whatsoever once a little fact-checking is done. Everything you insist to be true regarding research studies or the FBI/Secret Service report has been discredited at least a dozen times before so there isn't any point in saying it again. You choose to believe and spout whatever is convenient to you and is useful to your baseless scaremongering. You may have been found sane, so are most sociopaths.
As to your law in Louisiana that was passed, you know better than anyone else that politicians will pass anything so long as its touted as 'for the kids'. It would be used against them in elections otherwise, even if it is an obvious waste of money so poorly written it has no chance whatsoever of standing-up in court. Regardless of your success as a scaremonger you are, and will be until you're disbarred, an incredibly bad lawyer with no grasp of the principles of American law whatsoever.
Nope. The FBI and Secret Service found just the opposite. Teen violence is up. School killings linked to video games are up. Nightline profiled me last month as the lead story. Why? Because adults know what is going on, and they know, by virtue of Congressional testimony, that the link between teen violence and teen consumption of violent entertainment is up.
You are protesting because you have been proven wrong by all the experts who have enough time to read studies, while you and others fritter away your lives in front of a video game screen.
How sad. Get a life.
"Most sociopaths are found sane"? That's hilarious.
Luke, I was happy to do the interview. Those who care about the issue of degraded culture and the corrosive effects of it on human behavior know the solutions, and they are not found in the hysterical (true meaning of the word) postings of depraved gamers. My work is done here.
I move on to destroy Rockstar in 2007. Happy New Year, gentlemen!
Jack Thompson
Sociopathy and insanity are completely different and unrelated terms. Insanity can be used as a legal defense whereas prisons are full of sociopaths like yourself. I suppose you can be forgiven for not being able to comeprehend that though, as you're not exactly a competent lawyer.
You've been promising to "take down Rockstar" for how many years now? You certainly did a bang-up job of it in 2007 didn't you? What with getting Bully declared a public nuisance and all. Oh wait... you failed at that too and made an even bigger laughingstock of yourself when you threw a huge hissyfit after the judge dismissed your case. Suppose you can't be expected to remember that either, considering it was just another in a long string of embaressing failures.
2006 I mean. Of course, a repeat performace this year wouldn't surprise me.
If anything Rockstar ought to be paying you for helping to sell games with all the controversy you generate with your bizarre assertions. It isn't as if they couldn't simply sue for restitution of the legal fees spent having your meritless lawsuits thrown out of court.
Dear Thompson, unfortunately my post was made up heavily of quotes directly from the reports in question if what I posted is lies then your beef should be with the professionals you say you listen too. I included a link to both studies that anyone (except you apparently) can read those links and see I am not lying but in fact quoting the reports. There is no single common denominator in those reports; the direct unaltered quotes I provide show that. In addition to what I have already posted if you read the report you can clearly see that they were many other factors that were very common and even more common amongst school shooters. The only common denominator claim you make is simply not supported by ether of the reports. The entire reasons the FBI recommended a comprehensive threat assessment approach is that any the one denominator approach would be ineffective. Although I address this to Mister Thompson I really write this for the sake of those who may be conned by this man again here are the link read them for yourself: You will see all my quotes are direct unaltered quotes you will see that nether found a common denominator and they in fact cautioned against searching for one:
The secret serviceâs report: www.treasury.gov/usss/ntac/ssi_final_report.pdf
The FBIâs report: www.fbi.gov/publications/school/school2.pdf
Thompson ironically does bringing too light the problem with our electronic age. No one in our high-speed youtube, sound bite world takes the time to double check peoples claims. This is what allows Thompson to repeatedly misrepresent the FBI and Secret services reports. I have read the reports quoted the reports and Thompson comically tries to tell me these quotes are lies, strangely enough many will believe Thompson (or myself for that matter) with out ever clicking the above link and reading the facts for themselves.
Once again: âThere is no accurate or useful "profile" of students who engaged in targeted school violenceâ and âthere is no set of traits that described allâor even mostâof the attackers.â Two direct quote from the above reports, how Thompson concludes that a common denominator exist (to the point that any assertion to the opposite is lie no less) after reading this is probably best described using the same insults he hurls at his opponents.
Read the reports yourselves and make your own conclusions.
"I move on to destroy Rockstar in 2007. Happy New Year, gentlemen!"
That was a quote from Jack here, obviously. Now lets compare that to a quote Jack made on another site, qj.net, last April when someone put a copy of a book he signed on ebay to be destroyed:
"You gamers are such blind hypocrites that you don't see the inconcistency, the juvenile pettiness of destroying that with which you disagree"
Wow, you sound like a hypocrite. Again. By the way, haven't you said Rockstar would be dead in 2006? And in 2005?
Lastly, for the record, the last straw for Jack on gamepolitics when he got permabanned was when he demanded personal information from everyone who responded to him under the threat of suing them.
I started an interview with Mr Thompson a few years back. The first part went well especialy as Mr Thompson got all religious in response to some of my questions. I duely passed these parts on to my mother to handle as they are outside of my knowledge. My mother, being an ordained priest, was able to demolish his standpoint on the religious issues and point out that the passages he had quoted from the Bible he had misunderstood in a way that indicated he had a very poor grasp on both theology and more to the point the Scriptures. For some reason, when I posted these responses back to Mr Thompson he clamed up and refused to continue the interview.
A decent indication of his character, in my view. A man who hides behind the Scriptures but is unwilling and unable to handle having his imaginary shield revealed as the chimera it was desrves not to use religion as a tool in his arguements.
Firstly I would like to echo Lukeâs thanks to Mr Thompson for taking the time to talk to us. He is a busy man, and the more mercenary amongst us can see that there might be more lucrative publicity outlets than our beloved Play.tm.
I believe that whether or not you agree with Mr Thompson, I think his opinions should be at least respected and considered, rather than just screamed down, like the example of the angry youth who telephoned him. He is not a crank, officious housewife, or slavering conservative lunatic following Gods whispered orders only he can hear from radios. He structures his arguments and offers data he considers proof.
I disagree fairly completely with Mr Thompson on most points (except Manhunter â that was just bad taste and a rubbish game), but believe it is very important that we continue to debate and consider such topics in computer games â it guards against the medium becoming dull. Without critical consideration and discussion, we would simply end up with increasingly graphically shiny versions of FIFA 2007. Just look at how much response his interview has created â I certainly never got that many comments, no matter how bad my review was.
It is my opinion that Mr Thompson is wrong, but I wholeheartedly welcome his opinions being posted on Play.tm, in the belief it helps promote a more active and reasoned gaming community.
Bit of a shame Luke couldnt find a photo of him that didn't look like he was considering eating your liver :-)
You know, movies can make you feel good...
And R-rated movies are sold to kids more often than M-rated games are.
But anyone claiming R-rated movies should be banned would be laughed off his soapbox.
And Jack's "School's don't report" excuse for the Department of Justice stats showing violence decreasing don't fly because this is total violence and not just school violence. Beyond that, it's attempting to answer a solid statistic with mere supposition and hearsay.
Finally, Jack, can we take it as a given that you do not intend to pay back the state of Louisiana any of the $157,000+ that YOUR law cost them?
Thompson will take publicity wherever he can get it. He continues to become increasingly irrelevant (consider his outrage over The Sims 2 and apparent obliviousness to the den of perversion that is Second Life) and knows it, judging from his increasingly desperate ploys to get his name in print.
While I do agree that debate is important, I genuinely believe Thompson to be detrimental to HEALTHY discussion on the subject. His antics may serve to stir controversy but by consistently distorting and misrepresenting facts he's done nothing more but obfuscate the heart of the matter and seriously mislead the lesser informed public while perpetuating the squandering of thousands upon thousands of public dollars which could be used to the actual betterment of our nation's youth.
Boffo, for the last time:
NOBODY IS CALLING ON A BAN OF VIDEO GAMES. NOBODY. WHERE DO YOU GET THIS NONSENSE? CAN'T YOU READ THE ABOVE INTERVIEW?
How are we to take seriously a human being who a) hides behind a fake name, and b) who uses the fake name of Internet Kiddie?
Real men use real names. Avatars are for cowardly losers. Bye-bye. I'm off to get ready for the premiere of the documentary in which I appear. See you on the red carpet!
It is, perhaps, a silly question - but are we sure the person using 'Jack Thompson' is the same person interviewed, and not a fake?
Mr Thompsonâs views, whilst in my opinion erroneous, were usually articulate and seemed made by an adult â an accomplished lawyer in fact. Now posting we have an individual calling others âcowardly losersâ, who seems distinctly childish and boastful.
In light of my previous post regarding intelligent and reasoned debate, I now feel that he is not the individual to stimulate it.
It is a genuine disappointment that Jack Thompson, assuming him to be genuine, has been shown to be incapable of intelligent discourse for longer than an inflammatory sound bite. I can only hope that he is deliberately provoking readers with his petulance in order to obtain a âjuicyâ quote for future interviews, that will doubtlessly be attributed to âinexplicably hostileâ gamers.
If this is the same individual that is able to spark international debate and have their message delivered on national television networks, it would be a damning critique of mass media and public credulity.
A bitter disappointment.
Look at the IP address published next to the comment. It's the same person.
Duncan, you obviously haven't been reading-up on Thompson. He's been spewing the same vitriol for over a decade and this behavior is the reason he was banned from commenting on GamePolitics dozens and dozens of times and kept coming back until it moved from Livejournal and was able to permaban his IP. He probably would have fallen into complete obscurity by now if it hadn't taken him so long to conquer his fear of and figure-out how to use the internet.
I am, my cowardly avatar friend, becoming convinced you are right, which is a shame.
It figures, I show two very conflicting quotes Jack made and ge ignores it since he has nothing to defend it. Then he claims to go off for his "documentary".
Typical cut-and-run republican.
C.K., of course he ignores is. He ignores everything that doesn't fall-in squarely with what he chooses to believe. The MRI study he keeps erroneously attributing to Harvard (it actually took place at the Indiana University School of Medicine, in case anyone was wondering was looking for it) only found that playing video games elicited a 'fight or flight' response in the brain, not brain damage. The same response would be found in some level if they were able to somehow able to do an MRI scan while someone rode a rollercoaster or played football. If short-term changes in brain-function constituted "brain damage" other causes of "brain damage" would include consumption of chocolate, falling in love, having sex, menstruation, participating in sports, etc.
Please forgive the numerous typos in the previous post. Writing coherently while multitasking gets increasingly difficult on 5 hours sleep.
That'll be the brain damage then.
I wish. I definitely could have used a little 'brain damaging' last night.
What? Menstruation?
:-p
Fine â seeing as Iâve gone an lowered the tone (even further than Jack Thompson has) Iâve been dying to say that I thought all your albums were derivative, except that one with âWhereâd all the Good People Goâ on it.
Moral Kombat, coming to Christian Science bookstores and Wal-Mart sales bins to you in a couple weeks.
Was that Thompson trying to tie together 9/11 and PC flight simulators? He's said wackier things but the voice sounded a bit too calm to me.
I couldn't help laughing when I saw shots from Oddworld being included. Be careful parents, as exposing your children to video games may one day cause them to :::gasp::: join the U.S. military or, even worse, turn them into repressed and exploited nature-loving aliens with psychic powers.
That odd I seemed to have pressed "paste" twice when I copyed over from word. Sorry about that.
Thats allright, first class trouncing of Jacks argument. I doubt he'll have the guts to respond now that we've catagoricly debunked all his bull.
Now we just have to wait for Moral kombat to come out so we can see if Hals brother was fair and unbiased or if he just gave idiots like jack a platform to spout there lies and relegious bullcrap.
We'll just have to see.
Jack,
Yes, I read the interview. I read you CLAIMING you're not out to ban video games, as you've claimed before. I also read you, IN THIS SAME INTERVIEW, proudly announce that you're out to take down RockStar. I've also read things before like urging police officers in California to seize the game "25 to Life", just to provide a couple of examples. And it's hard to imagine that if you had success with these, you'd stop there.
I'm in my 30s. How can I buy seized games, or games by a company that no longer exists? Therefore, you are trying to ban games, no matter how many times you try to deny it.
Oh, and you had nothing to do with low sales on Bully. If anything, you INCREASED sales on Bully, both through increasing publicity on the game, and more than a few people bought a copy just to personally say "screw you".
Again, please answer this question: Do you intend to repay the state of Louisiana any of the $157,000+ that YOUR law cost them?
Yukimura, unlikely that's the reason he's been silent so many hours. His standard modus operandi is to completely disregard his being debunked and continue to go "I was on the moving pictures screen! (Insert random puerile insult here)! Nyah nyah!" ad nauseum until he gets banned or people get bored with it.
As unlikely as it may be, my hope is that Moral Kombat turned-out to be more unbiased than the sensationalistic puff-piece the advert depicted it as and he's in his cave working on his latest rambling, bizarro, 'press release' announcing his intent to sue the filmmakers and accusing them of being in the deep pockets of Take-Two, Blank Rome, libertarians, the kid who spit in his burger at McDonalds, the dog in his neighbor's yard that keeps looking at him funny, etc.
Unlikely though, as I said. He's probably in his cave writing a rambling bizarro 'press release' about something else, like the next unenforceable nuisance bill of his in line to be swatted-down in court.
You might be damn right Absum. Either way, I put jack Into my copy of Fight night and every time he ticks me off, I just beat the crap out of him with my 5 11, 250 pound power puncher version of me and I feel better.
Speaking of which, how tall is jack? I need to update my version of him.